Posted by ANOTHER GEORGE on November 21, 2000 at 11:00:09:
In Reply to: Greek (ie. Eastern) Orthodoxy = Christianity posted by Basil on November 18, 2000 at 21:23:45:
: Dear Jennifer:
: The real ignorance about the Greek Orthodox faith is actually displayed by both Mihalis and Gary. It is easy to cast all the blame for many of the G.O. flock's ignorance on the church. Having travelled extensively across America and Canada in the past, I can attest to the fact that those not inclined to follow the church's teachings (yes, the original (biblical and eastern-Mediterranean) ones that actually resulted in the spreading of Christianity to all the other parts of the world) often refer to the observent ones as ignorant, close-minded, chauvenistic etc. In reality, it is a pity that both of these fine Hellenes don't seak out pastors who can help them better explore the church from which all others sprang.
: As for your question, it is somewhat unfair to ask what is the difference between the G.O. church and Christianity when it was the G.O. church which, in fact, preceeded and took action to assemble all the books of the New Testament in the 320's A.D. Yes, the very church which recently has welcomed hundred of thousands of non-Greek converts into its fold (not through inter-marriage but as the result of searching by those in need of the truth).
: God Bless you and your fiancee' on your quest. By the way, I am not a member of the clergy. Rather, I'm an ordinary individual who feels honoured to have learned about this special heritage which demands so much of its members. Perhaps some day you, your fiancee, your family and others may feel the same way I do.
I was going to respond with a short post but then I read another post above that mentioned baptism & original sin & it made me think of a letter I wrote some time ago to someone that was asking some important biblical questions on another greek message board so I thought I would just paste the whole letter & save me some time. It does digress a bit but I think the subject matter is relevant here especially the part where Basil writes that all relegions sprang forth from Orthodoxy which is simply not true.
I saw your queries on the bulletin board along with the responses, which compelled me to write since I
sensed a profound need on your part to find answers.
The search for truth isn't an easy one. There are many roadblocks. The simplest way to approach it is to
understand how we feel inside. If we are constantly searching for answers to questions we don't know
because they are seldom mentioned, partly because they are taboo, or because they are difficult to
respond to from a historical perspective, or they go counter to our belief system, we then need to
examine how we feel. Our faith may be strong but it is only our faith, something that was given to us at an
early age. We didn't have the ability to question anything, until now. Our faith however, is so rooted in us,
that we would have a difficult time believing anything that goes contrary to it. So we confide in those who
taught us, to come up with the answers we are looking for. Unfortunately when one professes his faith he
protects it at the same time, even if it means avoiding the truth. I know these are difficult words but
someone once said that "the truth shall set you free".
When theologians are confronted with questions that they cannot answer they always avoid the question.
Hence Father Gregory's response: "the holy scriptures are NOT concerned with HOW the heavens got
there but how to go to heaven". If the scriptures were not so concerned with how the heavens got there,
why then is the first story of the bible the Creation story? They should have left it out if it wasn't that
important. This would compel any logical or scientific mind to probe into it. Nowhere in the bible does it
say that we cannot search for these answers. On the contrary the bible clearly states that we have to
search for the truth or we shall perish.
Hosea 4:6 says "my people are destroyed from a lack of knowledge". This can only mean one
thing. Knowledge is not faith. Faith is something that does not rest on logical proof. It is the confident
belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea or thing. A sort of loyalty to something.
Knowledge implies wisdom, enlightment, learning. We have forgotten how to learn because our faith tells
us not to, yet we have scientific minds that use logic everyday, but when it comes to their faith, it (logic)
seems to vanish. That's quite a paradox.
Father Gregory's response is only one example of skirting the issue. There are many others I could bring
up but it would be pointless here and since the above quote was directed to you, it seemed the most
obvious one in which to make the point. I also want to say that I'm not attacking anyone here. I have a
profound respect for people & Father Gregory is certainly no exception.
OK Maria, now to your questions. Is the old testament the mythology of the Hebrews? My answer to
you would be that part of it is mythology & part of it is history. To distinguish between the two is very
easy. Whatever seems HUMANLY possible is probably HISTORY & whatever seems magical or
supernatural is probably MYTHOLOGY. I'll just give you a brief synopsis of Bible history and then
some examples of mythology. The Old Testament or The 5 Books Of Moses in the Christian faith & The
Torah of The Jews is one & the same. These were ORAL traditions that were handed down for
generations (roughly 500 years) before they were committed to writing. It was at the Sanhedrin around
700 B.C. that these traditions were transcribed. Originally there were 4 Books, but there was a split
whereby a compromise was reached adding a fifth book, which became The Old Testament or the 5
Books Of Moses. Now, how did they receive all these traditions?
In the bible it says that the hebrews, numbering roughly 72 entered into Egypt, lived for 400 years, then
left numbering 600,000, carrying with them all their customs. They were then supposedly held captive in
Babylonia for a peroid of time. In Egypt, before Moses, the Hebrews lives for almost 400 years. It was
during the time of Moses that they left (Exodus circa 1100B.C.) so it couldn't have been Moses that
created these laws. Moses was "learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians" (Acts 7:22), was born
& raised by Pharoahs daughter & became an Egyptian Priest, studying at Hermonthis, the Anu of the
bible. It was here that Moses learned about his faith, an Egyptian faith that he transmitted to his people.
Three examples. 1: The 10 commandments. In the book of "The Coming Forth By Day Or by Night",
(where our bible came from) commonly referred to as the Egyptian Book Of The Dead (because it was
found near a grave), there are 42 laws that were written 3500 years before Moses lived. In it you'll find
all of the 10 Commandments plus 32 more, known as the Negative Confessions. The priests and all the
students had to recant these 42 laws every day. Example: "I have not stolen, I have not murdered, I
have not cheated" etc. etc... Let's not forget that Moses was charged with killing an Egyptian, so
obviously there was a law against murder. And I believe it was Aaron that stole from the treasury, so
there was already a law against stealing. 2: The story of the golden calf. This is one of the famous
stories in the bible that deals with the Hebrews faith towards God. It seems that God was testing the faith
of the people by leaving Moses on the mountain for an extended period of time whereby after much
dissilusionment, the people down below started to build a golden calf to go back to their so called
heathen practices. The calf is none other than the goddess Hathor, a cow goddess that was the most
venerated goddess in ancient times. She was worshipped throughout the land and everywhere you went,
you would see goddess Hathor. But when the hebrew writers wrote the story, they had to make the
goddess a god (male) because women were not even allowed into the temples at that time. The plight of
women in biblical times is another issue and a very important one that I will allude to later. 3: The
creation story of God fashioning man out of clay: is the story of the Egyptian God Khensu, who
fashioned man out of clay on a potters wheel. The bible took out the potters wheel. This image of
(Khensu) can be found on the island of Philae, if I'm not mistaken, but I would have to refer to my texts
to verify that.
Note: The Egyptian historian Manetho relates to us & is confirmed by the Greek Geographer Strabo,
that "Moses was one of the Egyptian priests" The fragments of Manetho say that Osarseph
himself, who later changed his name to Moses, was a native of Northern Anu.(MANETHO
Translated by W.G. Waddell, London, Harvard University Press, 1640).
In the words of Dr. Alvin Boyd Kuhn, "The entire Christian creation legend, descent into and
exodus from Egypt, ark & flood allegory, Isrealite history, Hebrew prophesy and poetry,
Gospel, Epistles and Revelation imagery, all are now proven to have been the transmission of
Egypt's scrolls & papyri into the hands of later generations which knew neither their true origin
nor their fathomless meaning".
To say that God created the heavens in 6 days is one thing. To believe it is another. Science shows us
that the earth is billions of years old. The dinosaurs were around millions of years before us & the first
humanoid remains are almost 3,000,000 years old, unearthed in Kenya. And when you study the Adam
& Eve story closely, you see flaws as well as prejudices. For example, women today believe that they
committed the first sin. And men beat their behind because they committed the first sin. And women
allow them to do this. They let men take advantage of women. If we go back to the bible we see that a
man wrote that story. And whoever wrote that story hated women. They hated women so much they
couldn't even let the woman give birth to a child. They had to have the child come out of a man's rib.
You've never seen a man give birth to anything but doo doo. (The Egyptians knew who gave birth by
watching nature. This is why they had gods & godesses. Hence the first deities in Egypt were
female or androgynous). When you go to the maternity ward & the labor room, no man lies down to
give birth to anything. It is WOMAN. In the Adam & Eve story, God makes man out of clay. He then
forgets the formula. Now he wants to make a woman. He can't remember how he made a man so, the
first drug pusher, he puts Adam to sleep, a deep sleep, and then snatches a rib. Doesn't have the decency
to ask the man for a rib. This is how they wrote it Maria! Anyway, he then makes woman. Now look
how woman is to be despised. Men hating their mothers, their sisters, their own daughters, their wives.
OK Eve is the sinner. She goes up to the forbidden fruit tree & the serpent. Now God is going to play a
trick. If God made them why make the forbidden fruit tree? Why test them? They didn't do anything
wrong yet. Why make them do something wrong, you're God you can make them perfect. God is
perfect. Why make them imperfect? OK God gets the forbidden fruit tree, they're there, this woman gets
up, she's blind, that's why she couldn't see that she was naked. Now if she's blind how does she see the
forbidden fruit tree. She's got radar? But anyhow she goes & she sees the forbidden fruit tree. She's
going to mess with the snake, the serpent who gives her the lowdown. She then goes & calls the man.
Now he's going to blame her. If he knew that she was doing something wrong, why did he do it? But he
goes & does it & still blames her. He knew that she was wrong right there. So he was equally wrong if it
Maria, this is the thing that young people are rebelling against. They're reading this thing. they're not
skimming through it. When the Bible was written, the average person couldn't read or write. And those
on the top used to tell them all kinds of stories. They had goblins & ghosts running around. The bible is
full of demons & ghosts. Devils are driven out of people. Instead of putting them in the crazy house they
used to beat them, lock them up, do all kinds of things to them. They had chastity belts. Man was so
crazy. But he's not any better nowadays. And the woman allows the man to put that thing on her. Let
man fool her. And she's repenting for her sins. They say if you get married, then the baby's alright. So you
get married. And then you have the baby, but they say it was born in the original sin. Don't care how you
do your notes.
I was never born in any sin Maria. My mother & father had me in...... Godliness. I was the greatest thing
that ever came out. You better believe that!. I have no remorse for being here. My God wouldn't make
anything that he's going to put in a fire & roast like a weenie burger forever & forever. That's a sadistic
masochistic god, and I don't believe in such a god. My God is LOVE, and the word comes out of man's
mind. A man doesn't think with his heart. The only thing the heart does is pump blood. Man thinks with
his mind. God & heaven are inside us all. How she/he thinks, so she/he is.
I would like to re-iterate the fact that most of the supernatural stories including the Book of Revelation
can be found in The Book OF The Dead, The Papyrus Of Ani, The Pyramid Texts, The Coffin Texts &
The Osirian Drama. The Pyramid Texts are the collected works of the writings (heiroglyphics) inside the
pyramids. The coffin Texts are the writings on the coffins inside the pyramids & The Papyrus Of Ani is
one of the largest scrolls ever found dating back to 1500 B.C. In these works you'll find creation stories,
heaven, hell, judgements, resurrections, virgin births. Virgin births galore! Mary didn't start anything new.
She's was repeating a trick done umpteen times. Mary is actually the Egyptian Goddess Isis who gave
birth by immaculate conception, to Horus. Also the life of Jesus & the life of Bhudda are identical. For a
complete analysis of the bible, see "BIBLE MYTHS & THEIR PARALLELS IN OTHER
RELIGIONS" by T.W. Doane (Mokelumne Hill Press) first published in 1882. This is the most
comprehensive book available that deals with the bible's origins. I'll list some other pertinent & mostly
suppressed works at the end.
Phew! Now to your second question. The Adam & Eve story is mytholigical. All scientific research
points to the cradle of Africa as the home to the first hominids going back almost 3,000,000 years. I've
already mentioned this but it is important to realise that our faith allows us to percieve mythology as
reality. This cannot be with a rational mind. Also, stories of a flood are found throughout antiquity. These
are legends and should be viewed as such and nothing more. True, if there is a moral to a story, that's
fine, we can all learn from parables, but to attach an historical event to it defies logic and arouses
As to your last question which is actually your first, Jesus is said to have studied in Egypt. The Aquarian
Gospel Of Jesus Christ section XI Chapter 47 & 48 Pages 87-98: Entitled LIFE & WORKS OF
JESUS IN EGYPT. Jesus with Elihu and Salome in Egypt. Tells the story of his journeys. Elihu &
Salome praise God. Jesus goes to the temple in Heliopolis & is received as a pupil. And Jesus stayed in
Zoan many days and then went forth unto the city of the sun that men call Heliopolis, and sought
admission to the temple of the sacred brotherhood. The master said "Take then the vow of secret
brotherhood". And Jesus took the vow of secret brotherhood. Chapter 48. Jesus received from the
hierophant his mystic name & number. Passes the first brotherhood test, and receives his first degree,
SINCERITY. The chamber walls were marked with mystic signs, with hieroglyphs & sacred texts; and
in this chamber Jesus found himself alone where he remained for many days. He read the sacred texts;
thought out the meaning of the heiroglyphs and sought the import of the master's charge to find himself.
As Professor Morton Smith of Columbia University from an article in The New York Times, Tuesday
May 19, 1973, reminds us: "Everybody knows there were a lot of apocryphal gospels besides the
four canonical Gospels - Mathew, Mark, Luke & John."
There's a plethora of evidence available to answer all of your questions & more, in greater detail. They
include: ANACALYPSIS (2 Volumes) By Sir Godfrey Higgins written in 1832. THE RUINS OF
EMPIRES By Volney written in 1798, and the works I mentioned above. BIBLE MYTHS would be
a good beginning.
I hope I haven't bored you or taken too much of your time but I do hope that you find all the answers
you're looking for. In my thirst for knowledge I have come to a greater appreciation of who Jesus was &
where our religion came from. We have such a glorious history that is suppressed because of
ecclesiastical purpose. I hope that one day all religions can see that we are all brothers & sisters and that
as a world we must unite or we shall surely perish. Take care & God bless you.
P.S. I noticed the article on Find God In Silence and found it particularly interesting because it closely
resembles meditation which is forbidden in our faith. Let's not forget that mediation was taken out by the
Christian Fathers I believe in the 3rd centuryAD. Bye!
P.S.S. I also want to make it clear that I'm not trying to steer you away from your faith. I believe in God
now more than ever. I just feel we all have a right to know what the church knows. That is all. Take care.
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