Re: Orthodoxy vs. Ancient Hellenic Religion? (NOT !!!)

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Posted by Achilles on July 18, 2001 at 07:51:50:

In Reply to: Re: Orthodoxy vs. Ancient Hellenic Religion? (NOT !!!) posted by GS on July 18, 2001 at 03:28:37:

GS wrote:

: Yes it is true that many crimes have been commited in the name of Christ as well (Spanish Inquisition, Nazis etc), BUT they were comitted by people that interpreted those religious messages their own way. That is not down to religion itself, Hitler was crazy and he happened to be Christian, it's not Christianity to blame here, but the person itself. The same with other people even Priests and the Pope etc, that they used their power to commit several crimes.

 As I’ve said before the ideology is a nice concept however the practice consistently produces different results.

: The religion itself is impact, it is the way that everyone interpretes it that is the problem.

 How is it a problem? Who is in a position to know if that is so? If the method in which “everyone” interprets, the Christian faith is the problem. Is there reason to doubt the infallibility of Christianity?

: When it comes to the New Testament you've mentioned earlier, the New Testament was written in Greek

 …and Hebrew and Aramaic the native tongue of Jesus

(as it mainly contains material that was sent from the desciples to the Cristian communitites in Greek lands, pros Korinthious etc) and the first churches in the form that we know them today were established by Greek people in Greek lands. So there are a lot more in common between Christianity and Greek culture from what you want to present.

 You have just pointed out an idiosyncratic dynamic! The Early Christians were considered pagans to the Ancient Hellenes. As with many different cultures of the region, it was inevitable for some form of accumulation to occur within the society. For example ancient cultures such as the Egyptians, Romans, Etruscans, or Persians were not uncommon to amalgamate ethnicities into a unified whole.

: Furthermore, if it was not for the Christian religion and the Orthodox priests (who fought, taught kids of their heritage in krifo sxolio and managed to keep the hellenic flame in the hearts of the Greeks even with the means of christianity) we as a country would still be an Ottoman province....

 Do you believe that religion was the sole cause, which guided Greeks from Turkish liberation? Could there have been other factors like an innate need for freedom, a trait inherent in all human beings?

: I personally do not agree 100% with religion and especially the way it is presented in modern society, but at least lets not talk extremes and not recognise that this religion has also helped our country.

 What do you consider extreme, which I posted?
 Exactly how has Christianity helped our country?

: If you want to revive some of the ancient Greek culture, nothing stops you. Abolishing the Christian religion and believing to Zeus again will get you knowhere.

 Who is trying to abolish the Christian religion? I am just stating facts. Would you prefer to keep things hidden and concealed?
 How do you know that believing in Zeus or Buddha or Allah will get you nowhere? What are your reasons for saying that?
 Do you have any evidence to back your statement?
 Maybe believing in Jesus Christ will get you nowhere too!

My advice is believe in yourself and try and get the positives from both cultures. Ie be good as a person and to your neighbour, exercise your body and your spirit, admire and study the ancient philosophers and what they offered to hellenism and humanity together with many people of the church even modern ones, who believe me if you speak to them, they have many things to tell you.

 Nice advice for a child…no thanks

: Accept the ancient hellenic religion and Orthodoxy as great parts of hellenic beliefs and tradition in general, both in their own way and in their own time, and don't try to be so negative or so positive about anything.

 Are you thinking aloud now?

Study both parts of the coin, accept them as part of hellenic tradition in general and be able to draw your own conclusions and don't just stick to words and something you read once or something that somebody said.

 I have sir, and I have drawn my own conclusions as you can see.
 You seem to have a philosophy of duality.

: I know that you maybe stated some thoughts, so I'm sorry that it's directed to you since you posted the message. Anyway, I wish you well and at least I'm happy to see a person that wants to dispute things and find the truths, that's good...but with measures.

 And what measures might those be? By whose standards?

Some introspection for you to think about…

Reflect on the choices that you make in your life and respond to the following questions, which I’ve posted:

 Do you habitually defer to someone else’s ideas and opinions, permitting them to influence your thinking and actions to an inappropriate extent?
 Do you make rationalized excuses for your lack of progress in improving personal qualities in yourself?
 Are you a member of any organization or social groups that pressure you to submerge your critical thinking abilities and your ability to choose independently?

Achilles

Follow Ups:

Re: Orthodoxy vs. Ancient Hellenic Religion? (NOT !!!) GS 12:18:06 07/18/01 (7)
- Re: Orthodoxy vs. Ancient Hellenic Religion? (NOT !!!) Achilles 22:32:14 07/18/01 (0)
- Re: Orthodoxy vs. Ancient Hellenic Religion? (NOT !!!) Victor 15:55:44 07/18/01 (5)
  - Re: Orthodoxy vs. Ancient Hellenic Religion? (NOT !!!) Hadrian 05:35:05 07/26/01 (0)
  - I'm afraid this subject is leading us nowhere: most of the anti-Christians here have no knowledge of Orthodox Christianity Themistokles 23:43:43 07/24/01 (3)
    - Merry Christmas? costas 23:53:30 07/25/01 (0)
    - Orgins of Easter costas 23:49:08 07/25/01 (1)
      - copycats of hellenism plato 21:00:46 11/15/01 (0)

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: GS wrote: : : Yes it is true that many crimes have been commited in the name of Christ as well (Spanish Inquisition, Nazis etc), BUT they were comitted by people that interpreted those religious messages their own way. That is not down to religion itself, Hitler was crazy and he happened to be Christian, it's not Christianity to blame here, but the person itself. The same with other people even Priests and the Pope etc, that they used their power to commit several crimes. :  As I’ve said before the ideology is a nice concept however the practice consistently produces different results. : : The religion itself is impact, it is the way that everyone interpretes it that is the problem. :  How is it a problem? Who is in a position to know if that is so? If the method in which “everyone” interprets, the Christian faith is the problem. Is there reason to doubt the infallibility of Christianity? : : When it comes to the New Testament you've mentioned earlier, the New Testament was written in Greek :  …and Hebrew and Aramaic the native tongue of Jesus : (as it mainly contains material that was sent from the desciples to the Cristian communitites in Greek lands, pros Korinthious etc) and the first churches in the form that we know them today were established by Greek people in Greek lands. So there are a lot more in common between Christianity and Greek culture from what you want to present. :  You have just pointed out an idiosyncratic dynamic! The Early Christians were considered pagans to the Ancient Hellenes. As with many different cultures of the region, it was inevitable for some form of accumulation to occur within the society. For example ancient cultures such as the Egyptians, Romans, Etruscans, or Persians were not uncommon to amalgamate ethnicities into a unified whole. : : : Furthermore, if it was not for the Christian religion and the Orthodox priests (who fought, taught kids of their heritage in krifo sxolio and managed to keep the hellenic flame in the hearts of the Greeks even with the means of christianity) we as a country would still be an Ottoman province.... :  Do you believe that religion was the sole cause, which guided Greeks from Turkish liberation? Could there have been other factors like an innate need for freedom, a trait inherent in all human beings? : : : I personally do not agree 100% with religion and especially the way it is presented in modern society, but at least lets not talk extremes and not recognise that this religion has also helped our country. :  What do you consider extreme, which I posted? :  Exactly how has Christianity helped our country? : : : If you want to revive some of the ancient Greek culture, nothing stops you. Abolishing the Christian religion and believing to Zeus again will get you knowhere. :  Who is trying to abolish the Christian religion? I am just stating facts. Would you prefer to keep things hidden and concealed? :  How do you know that believing in Zeus or Buddha or Allah will get you nowhere? What are your reasons for saying that? :  Do you have any evidence to back your statement? :  Maybe believing in Jesus Christ will get you nowhere too! : : My advice is believe in yourself and try and get the positives from both cultures. Ie be good as a person and to your neighbour, exercise your body and your spirit, admire and study the ancient philosophers and what they offered to hellenism and humanity together with many people of the church even modern ones, who believe me if you speak to them, they have many things to tell you. :  Nice advice for a child…no thanks : : Accept the ancient hellenic religion and Orthodoxy as great parts of hellenic beliefs and tradition in general, both in their own way and in their own time, and don't try to be so negative or so positive about anything. :  Are you thinking aloud now? : Study both parts of the coin, accept them as part of hellenic tradition in general and be able to draw your own conclusions and don't just stick to words and something you read once or something that somebody said. :  I have sir, and I have drawn my own conclusions as you can see. :  You seem to have a philosophy of duality. : : : I know that you maybe stated some thoughts, so I'm sorry that it's directed to you since you posted the message. Anyway, I wish you well and at least I'm happy to see a person that wants to dispute things and find the truths, that's good...but with measures. :  And what measures might those be? By whose standards? : Some introspection for you to think about… : Reflect on the choices that you make in your life and respond to the following questions, which I’ve posted: :  Do you habitually defer to someone else’s ideas and opinions, permitting them to influence your thinking and actions to an inappropriate extent? :  Do you make rationalized excuses for your lack of progress in improving personal qualities in yourself? :  Are you a member of any organization or social groups that pressure you to submerge your critical thinking abilities and your ability to choose independently? : : Achilles

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