Posted by Themistokles on December 10, 2001 at 19:43:41:
In Reply to: Re: Greek Sociology posted by Eliza on December 09, 2001 at 18:51:55:
: Hi Tiffany, your thoughts are very interesting and I couldn't imagine knowing exactly why the huge difference in abortion rates in countries in which it is legal. The only thing I can offer is some thoughts regarding Greece. Most Greeks do respect the teachings of the church but amongst my friends, pre-marital sex is standard, as it is in most western countries. So why few unwanted pregnancies? Contraception is readily available and in my experience, Greek women are very sensible regarding taking precautions. On that matter, my boyfriends have also been extremely responsible regarding 'being careful'. I think an extremely large part of the low unwanted pregnancy rate in Greece is because children are very much wanted. What I mean is that children are regarded as the treasure of a family (and so often spoiled!), so to conceive a child that is not wanted is pretty close to anathema. Children in a Greek family are respected and treasured and their parents proud of them (of course I'm speaking in social generalities). Perhaps Tiffany, you may profit by looking at how different societies actually treat their children - the born and living ones, with regard to child-poverty, child-abuse
etc, and that will hold the key to abortion rates. My guess is that societies that don't treasure their children have a high abortion rate - I don't know, I'm only guessing and suggesting you try comparing child-abuse figures with abortion figures to see if there's any co-relation. Good luck with your studies Tiffany!
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Dear Tiffany:
I am astounded at the very low figures you cite for Greek abortions. It has been my understanding that Greece has had, for many of the past twenty years, one of the world's HIGHEST, not lowest abortion rates. In fact, figures I've been reading indicate that for every live birth in Greece, three-four end in aborted fetuses. I would be elated (yes, elated) if you can substantiate your findings with objective (i.e. low) data.
It is horrible to imagine that since the start of the liberalized abortion legislation of the Papandreou-sponsored laws (post 1981) that upwards of 5,000,000 pregnancies (at a VERY conservative-ie. low figure of 250,000 aborted fetuses per annum) have ended up as discarded fetal tissue.
Imagine these figures: If this figure (ie. more than 5,000,000 abortions over the past 20 years in Greece) is correct (and I believe it is, based on the data I've seen from I.K.A. (the National Health Agency of Greece)), then more fetuses have been 'killed' than all the deaths in ALL the wars and catastrophes that Greek people have been involved in since:
a) the Greek revolutionary war of the 1820's;
b) the Greek-Turkish wars of the 1850's and 1897;
c) the First and Second Balkan Wars;
d) the First World War;
e) the military losses of the Asia Minor Disaster;
f) the Greek Holocaust of 1915, 1922-24 and 1930'sw when over two million Greek people perished by the Young Turks' ethnic cleansing of Christian populations into the Anatolian heartland;
g) the Asia Minor Disaster of 1922-24,including the destruction of Smyrna during which over 1,400,000 Hellenes were ethnically cleansed from Turkey and sent to Greece;
h) the Greek victims of the 1919 Spanish Influenza;
i) the casualties of the Greek Army, Navy and Air-Force during the defence of Greece between Oct. 28, 1940 and late May, 1941 when the Germans finally overan all Greek defences
j) the victims of the German/Italian/Bulgarian occupation, including the 600,000 deaths by starvation between the Winter of 1941 and the fall of 1942;
k) the members of the Greek Resistance who fought against the Nazi occupiers;
l) the victims (on both sides) of the horrible, and extremely brutal Greek Civil War of 1944-1948
m) the Greek casualties who fought in the Korean War (1949-51)
n) the Greeks who were murdered during the anti-Greek riots in Constaninople (Istanbul) during September 5-6, 1955 (these riots were much larger and more violent than the evil Kristallnacht riots in 1933 in Nazi Germany)
o) the Cypriot uprising against the British during Cyprus' unsuccessful attempt to join Greece during the 1950's and 1960's;
p) the victims of the Greek junta (1967-1974);
q) the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974 and the subsequent ethnic-cleansing of 250,000 people from northern Cyprus;
r) the victims of the terrorist organization, Nov. 17;
....the list goes on...
Yes, we (rightly so) continue to commemorate the victims of all these attrocities I mention; yet many in our midst remain totally unaffected by all those whose lives were terminated prematurely because we feel that their existence is irrelevant, or....even an inconvenience.
I find it quite ironic that Greece also has one of the world's highest ratios of gynecologists-obstetricians/live births; could it be that many of thes physicians earn their living by aborting instead of facilitating ?
Sorry for what appears to be a sermon. It isn't intended as one; it's just that I am trying to invite some comments by you or others who are as deeply moved by this very serious issue as I am.
Thanks for reading,
Themistokles