Posted by Nicholas Paul Petros on July 24, 2001 at 23:42:13:
In Reply to: Re: Our Greek heroes would posted by Joanna on July 23, 2001 at 21:38:35:
: : Joanna wrote:
: : : Do you honestly believe that Greece would exist today if it hadn't been for christianity and Orthodoxy????!!!
: : : I think NOT!!
: : : Greece would still be under Turkish occupation and our language and culture would not exist!!!
: : ? Which culture would that be that Joanna, Hellenic or Christian?
: *Actually both. Culture has never been static. It has always evolved all over this world. Don't think that Ancient Hellenic culture was always the same until the establishment of Christianity.
: : If it hadn't been for the church and it's struggling servants (such as the Secret Schools run by monks and priests etc which taught the Greek language) and saints (such as Saint Kosmas Aitolos who travelled through Greece encouraging the people) during those horrible years of occupation it would be a different story.
: : ? It would have been a different story had the Byzantine Christians not forcefully assimilated the Ancient Hellenes to begin with.
: *How did the Byzantine Christians forcefully assimilate the Ancient Hellenes? We're talking of two different eras here. The Byzantine Christians were Hellenes themselves.
: You talk of forceful assimilation and persecution against the pagans. This argument can go both ways. The minority Christians were persecuted by the pagans. They could not force anyone to believe in the True God but they were pressured and forced by the pagans to bow to the idols. Many accepted martyrdom instead. It wasn't until the Emperor Constantine the Christians were afforded the same privileges as the pagans (about 300 AD).
: : Our heroes of the war for independence did not die for ancient Greece, they fought and spilled their blood for Orthodox Greece. If it hadn't been for these christian heroes we would not be here talking about it.
: : Lets examine what you just stated....“fought and spilled their blood for Orthodox Greece?”
: : What about turning the other cheek Joanna?
: : Remember “Thou shalt not kill?”
: : Christian heroes, Christian soldiers, Christian warriors? That just doesn’t sound right! A bit of a contradiction to the teachings of your faith wouldn’t you say? What happened to love, compassion and forgiveness. How about mercy or grace? Or were the murders, which those “heroes” of yours committed overlooked?
: *Actually it sounds very right. Many of our Saints were soldiers. For example St Constantine, St George, St Demetrios of Thessaloniki, St Raphael (who had fought against the Turks at Byzantium), St Theodore of Tyron, St Theodore (Stratilates) and the list goes on. Most if not all of these soldiers martyred for Christ.
: * You speak of "turning the other cheek". I agree but this teaching does not contradict a state's right to protect it's citizens. Whoever persecutes a believer in Christ persecutes Christ. Christ said this to Saul Paul on the road to Damascus and in his teachings. And "whoever lives by the sword dies by the sword" which is exactly what happened to the Turks and has happened to other enemies of God and his believers. God always triumphs over evil and wrongful persecution.
: God is not only a loving God but also a wrathful God and does punish his disobedient children. That includes everyone on earth because He created all of us.
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