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Posted by Christina on May 04, 2002 at 13:04:38:

In Reply to: Re: Nai thiavazo posted by Mr AncientGreek on May 01, 2002 at 08:42:49:

Sorry, I came home for Easter where my little brother had crashed our computer and our internet wasn't working, until we fixed it last night. So that is why I hadn't written back to you. I'm sorry because I know you were starting to think that you had intimidated me (and if I'm not mistaken, were feeling a little proud of yourself for it), and that's why I wasn't writing back. I do want to say that I do not appreciate the way you talk down to me, just because you are 25 and I am 19--how ridiculous. You say I am going through a phase of mental development and growth? Who ISN'T going through a phase of mental development and growth? It has nothing to do with age. If you think you are all done growing up at the age of 25, I think you have another thing coming. There are many people out there much older than you who would think that YOU are the "little thing" who is "discovering the grown up world." My point is that we aren't going to get anywhere with this debate if we start being disrespectful to each other. Surely, your post is convincing ENOUGH without all the indimidating emotions you tagged along with it? If you are going to be rude to me, then I don't want to continue this conversation, just so you know. Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

Thank you for giving me some examples. Now I see exactly what you are talking about when you say the Bible contradicts science. You say that if you are a real Christian you have to believe everything literally in the Bible. What I said before was that the concept of TIME in Genesis could not be taken literally, because God would not have gone by a human calendar (a human invention) before we even existed. Rather, it was the MAN who sat down to write the book of Genesis that applied the days of the week to the story. So I didn't say that NOTHING in Genesis should be taken literally. However, if God wanted to create the world in six days, I'm sure He could. But it seems so logical that this world WAS created by God (or some higher power, as some like to say). I mean, science has proven that there is a beginning to everything, including this earth. However, at the beginning, there was nothing, and somehow, something was created from this nothing. This defies the very scientific LAW of ours that states that "Energy cannot be created or destroyed." But somehow, energy was created; there had to have been some other force at work, wouldn't you agree?

So, about the stories of Noah and Jonah and Moses that you mentioned. Yes, these stories seem far-fetched. They certainly do defy the laws of science as we know them today. But then again, so does the creation of this earth, but THAT happened, didn't it? What I'm saying is that there isn't scientific evidence that these things DIDN'T happen, simply evidence that these things COULDN'T have happened according to science. But a belief in God means that you believe He has the power to do anything, that He is limitless. What about the miracle of Easter that happens every year in Christ's tomb, and the fire that comes down that doesn't burn? Are you familiar with this miracle? Science would say that people cannot just stick their hands and faces in fire and that it wouldn't burn them. But so many millions of people have done it--including people I know, and it's not just word-of-mouth, I've also seen it on their video.

I do not know much about Egyptology. But weren't these documents written by a human being? Just as the Bible was written by human beings? Why do you take the word of one account over another?

You bring up the concept of morals, and why would God allow horrible things to happen in His world. This is one of the most commonly asked questions not just of non-Christians, but Christians too. Christianity believes that God gave us free will--free will to choose between right and wrong. He did not create us as His puppets. Unfortunately, too many people in this world have given in to temptation and have done horrible things. But our fleeting life in this world--where six years can seem like a blink of an eye--is lived as a test: Are we going to try our best to be good people, or are we going to give in to temptation? No one ever said that Christianity was easy. Being Christian is the hardest thing one can ever do, but it is be one of the most rewarding things as well (whether in this life or the next). So why did God allow slavery? God didn't ALLOW slavery, he ALLOWS US to have free will to do whatever we want to do. We WANT to give in to temptation, to try and control other people and disrespect them, but we need to learn self-control, and to live our lives as good people. That is our challenge on this earth... life's never fun without a challenge though, wouldn't you agree?

: Come on Christina, you know that many things in the Bible contradict science. I just gave you many examples. You deny that idea strongly and then you find goofy explanations to make me believe that the Bible is still very scientific. There has always been a debate between Church and science. People write books about that subject, please tell your priest to stop trying to fool you.
: Everything in the Genesis contradicts science. You know why? Because it's the one
: book that doesn't tell stories and tries to explain to the reader where we all come from: everything is wrong, how the Earth was created, that men come from two beings called Adam and Eve, that the world was created in seven days, etc. everything in it is wrong. Now please don't tell me you don't have to take it literally. It was meant to be taken literally. Now with all the discoveries we've made, some people like you try to interpret the writings in different ways. No, I am sorry, if you are a real Christian you have to believe that the world was created in a week, that light came before the sun even existed, and all of these things that don't make sense. If you think the beginning of the Bible is wrong then just consider questioning your religion.

: Ok now I will still assume that all the miracles are true, that there was a deluge, that all animals from this planet (animals that even only lived far far away on other continents) were put in that boat for days, that Moses cut the sea in half, that that man lived in a whale, because after all God is powerful and can do whatever (wonder why he doesn't do anything today though when millions of people in the Third World starve to death.).
: However the Bible is flawed in other ways:
: History: the parts about Egypt are wrong. I studied Egyptology and it's a shame how mixed up the history of Egypt is in the Bible. Periods are flawed, a Pharaoh that was born after another reigns way before. Obviously it's not God that wrote it but a monk who was pretty bad in history.
: Morals: slavery is ACCEPTED in the Old Testament. How can God ACCEPT slavery, the most degrading thing for a human being. I know that back then it was accepted but then again, I thought God was perfect.
: Science: many miracles are hard to believe but ok they are miracles. Still many miracles can be contradicted by science. Like the rainbow after the deluge being created by God so men could remember that event. We all know that rainbows existed before that event 8000 years or so ago. Just a detail anyway. Once a Christian told me that story about the guy that falls in the bottom of the ocean and lives in a whale for a couple of days. And he was like "wow that's awesome". People are so &**@#^ dumb, it's amazing.
: I think there is a lot of good things in the Bible too, stories of courage, good teaching of values etc however they are other ancient books with the same kind of stories with the same values taught. Study Egyptology and you will be fascinated. I like the Ancient Greek legends too, I think they are much better written that the Bible (well yes the Greeks wrote them).
: Christina I am six years older than you, you are still a little thing, and still going through a phase of mental development and growth. You are discovering the grown up world with your small innocent eyes and try to find answers to your questions and to your fears. Listen to me, think about what I wrote, but don't get into this religious thing and make sacrifices in your life without thinking about it first. If you need my help, don't hesitate to write to me.

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: Sorry, I came home for Easter where my little brother had crashed our computer and our internet wasn't working, until we fixed it last night. So that is why I hadn't written back to you. I'm sorry because I know you were starting to think that you had intimidated me (and if I'm not mistaken, were feeling a little proud of yourself for it), and that's why I wasn't writing back. I do want to say that I do not appreciate the way you talk down to me, just because you are 25 and I am 19--how ridiculous. You say I am going through a phase of mental development and growth? Who ISN'T going through a phase of mental development and growth? It has nothing to do with age. If you think you are all done growing up at the age of 25, I think you have another thing coming. There are many people out there much older than you who would think that YOU are the "little thing" who is "discovering the grown up world." My point is that we aren't going to get anywhere with this debate if we start being disrespectful to each other. Surely, your post is convincing ENOUGH without all the indimidating emotions you tagged along with it? If you are going to be rude to me, then I don't want to continue this conversation, just so you know. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. : Thank you for giving me some examples. Now I see exactly what you are talking about when you say the Bible contradicts science. You say that if you are a real Christian you have to believe everything literally in the Bible. What I said before was that the concept of TIME in Genesis could not be taken literally, because God would not have gone by a human calendar (a human invention) before we even existed. Rather, it was the MAN who sat down to write the book of Genesis that applied the days of the week to the story. So I didn't say that NOTHING in Genesis should be taken literally. However, if God wanted to create the world in six days, I'm sure He could. But it seems so logical that this world WAS created by God (or some higher power, as some like to say). I mean, science has proven that there is a beginning to everything, including this earth. However, at the beginning, there was nothing, and somehow, something was created from this nothing. This defies the very scientific LAW of ours that states that "Energy cannot be created or destroyed." But somehow, energy was created; there had to have been some other force at work, wouldn't you agree? : So, about the stories of Noah and Jonah and Moses that you mentioned. Yes, these stories seem far-fetched. They certainly do defy the laws of science as we know them today. But then again, so does the creation of this earth, but THAT happened, didn't it? What I'm saying is that there isn't scientific evidence that these things DIDN'T happen, simply evidence that these things COULDN'T have happened according to science. But a belief in God means that you believe He has the power to do anything, that He is limitless. What about the miracle of Easter that happens every year in Christ's tomb, and the fire that comes down that doesn't burn? Are you familiar with this miracle? Science would say that people cannot just stick their hands and faces in fire and that it wouldn't burn them. But so many millions of people have done it--including people I know, and it's not just word-of-mouth, I've also seen it on their video. : I do not know much about Egyptology. But weren't these documents written by a human being? Just as the Bible was written by human beings? Why do you take the word of one account over another? : You bring up the concept of morals, and why would God allow horrible things to happen in His world. This is one of the most commonly asked questions not just of non-Christians, but Christians too. Christianity believes that God gave us free will--free will to choose between right and wrong. He did not create us as His puppets. Unfortunately, too many people in this world have given in to temptation and have done horrible things. But our fleeting life in this world--where six years can seem like a blink of an eye--is lived as a test: Are we going to try our best to be good people, or are we going to give in to temptation? No one ever said that Christianity was easy. Being Christian is the hardest thing one can ever do, but it is be one of the most rewarding things as well (whether in this life or the next). So why did God allow slavery? God didn't ALLOW slavery, he ALLOWS US to have free will to do whatever we want to do. We WANT to give in to temptation, to try and control other people and disrespect them, but we need to learn self-control, and to live our lives as good people. That is our challenge on this earth... life's never fun without a challenge though, wouldn't you agree? : : : Come on Christina, you know that many things in the Bible contradict science. I just gave you many examples. You deny that idea strongly and then you find goofy explanations to make me believe that the Bible is still very scientific. There has always been a debate between Church and science. People write books about that subject, please tell your priest to stop trying to fool you. : : Everything in the Genesis contradicts science. You know why? Because it's the one : : book that doesn't tell stories and tries to explain to the reader where we all come from: everything is wrong, how the Earth was created, that men come from two beings called Adam and Eve, that the world was created in seven days, etc. everything in it is wrong. Now please don't tell me you don't have to take it literally. It was meant to be taken literally. Now with all the discoveries we've made, some people like you try to interpret the writings in different ways. No, I am sorry, if you are a real Christian you have to believe that the world was created in a week, that light came before the sun even existed, and all of these things that don't make sense. If you think the beginning of the Bible is wrong then just consider questioning your religion. : : Ok now I will still assume that all the miracles are true, that there was a deluge, that all animals from this planet (animals that even only lived far far away on other continents) were put in that boat for days, that Moses cut the sea in half, that that man lived in a whale, because after all God is powerful and can do whatever (wonder why he doesn't do anything today though when millions of people in the Third World starve to death.). : : However the Bible is flawed in other ways: : : History: the parts about Egypt are wrong. I studied Egyptology and it's a shame how mixed up the history of Egypt is in the Bible. Periods are flawed, a Pharaoh that was born after another reigns way before. Obviously it's not God that wrote it but a monk who was pretty bad in history. : : Morals: slavery is ACCEPTED in the Old Testament. How can God ACCEPT slavery, the most degrading thing for a human being. I know that back then it was accepted but then again, I thought God was perfect. : : Science: many miracles are hard to believe but ok they are miracles. Still many miracles can be contradicted by science. Like the rainbow after the deluge being created by God so men could remember that event. We all know that rainbows existed before that event 8000 years or so ago. Just a detail anyway. Once a Christian told me that story about the guy that falls in the bottom of the ocean and lives in a whale for a couple of days. And he was like "wow that's awesome". People are so &**@#^ dumb, it's amazing. : : I think there is a lot of good things in the Bible too, stories of courage, good teaching of values etc however they are other ancient books with the same kind of stories with the same values taught. Study Egyptology and you will be fascinated. I like the Ancient Greek legends too, I think they are much better written that the Bible (well yes the Greeks wrote them). : : Christina I am six years older than you, you are still a little thing, and still going through a phase of mental development and growth. You are discovering the grown up world with your small innocent eyes and try to find answers to your questions and to your fears. Listen to me, think about what I wrote, but don't get into this religious thing and make sacrifices in your life without thinking about it first. If you need my help, don't hesitate to write to me.

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