Re: Classical Greece and the Truth about the Modern!! (My God ! Are all of you that daft ? Learn to read some more sources before you make others believe that all Greeks are as ignorant as you all are !)

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Posted by Alex Loyd on May 13, 2002 at 23:19:30:

In Reply to: Re: Classical Greece and the Truth about the Modern!! (My God ! Are all of you that daft ? Learn to read some more sources before you make others believe that all Greeks are as ignorant as you all are !) posted by Themistokles on May 09, 2002 at 20:51:35:

: : : all this shows how Greece was odiously invaded, betrayed, and abused by foreign nations!!!!!!!! The Orthodox Church took part in that abuse and betrayal, and should be reformed today, to be made purely Greek. The patriarch should be moved from Istanbul to Athens. Our Church should be Greek only and shouldn't have any relationships with the slavic churches of the retarded Eastern European countries. Ancient Greek religion , values, and teachings should also be introduced in our country, and made as, if not, more important than the semitic values taught by the church who odiously betrayed us in the past.
: : : Eleni you underestimate Greek people's rage. If Turkey repeats its aggression, believe me that we will fight till our last drop of blood. Believe me that everyday I wish this could happen so I could avenge my ancestors and my nation, and show the Turk and the Muslim he shouldn't step on our land.

: : Greece was betrayed more by the west than the east. Orthodoxy is a two-edged sword.
: : On the one hand it was one of the primary ingredients in the last great flowering of greek civilization
: : so far, that of Byzantium, but on the other hand, it has tied our hands and in many ways made us subservient to this
: : by jewish influence that cannot be escaped with christianity, being that it has its premise in the mythology of the jews. We
: : must advance into the next stage of greek civilization, return to our own ways, a lot. Now, much of the deep theology of
: : Orthodoxy was invented by _Greeks_ and not by foriegners. These ideas can continue existing, being that they were the product of
: : centuries of refinement and debate and development, if you want to know where the efforts of the philosophical nature of the greek people
: : went during thos centuries, it went into creating the theology of Orthodoxy, but those ideas can
: : continue existing even with the removal of much of the jewish basis. This would free us from this mental
: : attachemnt to them. The Jews would have disappeared if it wasnt for christianity spreading through
: : the world, and with it the memory and inseperable existence of jewish mythologies. Otherwise they were a very insignificant people,
: : a backwards little country which didnt concern most people, aside from local
: : conflicts and issues.
: : To get back on track, we should not reject Orthodoxy wholesale, but maybe the time is coming to finally make some
: : changes in it, to free the mental depedency on the jews that is dogmatically bound in with the rest of that package.
: : Also, the suggestion of moving the Patriarch from Kwnstantinoupolh to athina or anywhre else is not a good one. That is OUR city.
: : we built it. Twice! instead of moving the last greek thing out of that city, we should be preparing every minute of our lives for the
: : chance that we might be able to fight to take that city back!
: : The firghteningly powerful modern industrial world, as powerful as it is, and as powerful as it will yet become, will not last forever.
: : It is spinning out of control and flying ever closer to the edge of destruction. Already many things which were thought to be so powerful
: : as to never fail are dying. Theyre burning out too quickly and can't sustain themselves. Give it another 50 years, just watch, and youll see
: : the miserable disaster theyre heading towards. We must separate ourselves from this disaster and sharpen our swords, clean our guns, and stop sitting
: : idle like fools , chasing after the coat-tails of the west, of the jews, of anybody who dangles a little dainty in front of our nose, slavering over
: : them like fawning dogs, instead we must stand up like men, put the toys away, stop wasting all our effort and soul on acquiring the poisonous
: : consumer society drugs of the 'modern' world, and keep ourselves alert, ready, and strong, and when the time comes, we must strike
: : out again, to restore some semblance of the greatness of greek
: : civilization. We must be the _next_ age, we cannot win in this age of the world. We are selling the very soul
: : of hellenism for a few trinkets, we must STOP this!

: : We must look to the first great flowering of the Greek civilization for our example: the civilization in the
: : bronze age, when the main mix of the greek race had
: : already taken place, the mixing of the Ellhnes with the pelasgian peoples who were the first inhabitants of
: : the greek lands and the islands, and the civilization they had. They got it right. Since then, we have never yet
: : succeeded in getting it quite right again.

: : Now, as for fighting the turks, I'm with you. I dont see them as our primary enemy, but they are still a mortal enemy.
: : I live in america, but if they ever attack us, i'm on the first plane back to fight, and im bringing every bit of money, ammunition,
: : knives, sticks, rocks, anything i can get my hands on, to fight them.

: : Pas mh Ellhn, Varvaros.

: : (by the way, i am not atheist, not pagan, i am orthodox and will remain so, certainlyt the traditions of the church and of
: : our people have gone hand in hand, and the traditions should endure, even if the dogma of the church is rewritten to remove the
: : influence of the barbarians from us)
: ________________________________

: I"m afraid that anyone reading any of these posts will come away believing what many educated Greeks know to be true: namely, that the price that our Greek (in Greece) society's refusal to read a books and newspapers (as well as other academic sources) is the mass ignorance of our population of much that is valuable to our own long term survival. In fact, the May 8th edition of (the English edition of Greece's most influential newspaper (its target audience has a far higher level of education and disposable income than any other print source in all of Greece)) reported the European Union's latest statistics that Greeks (in Greece) read the least number of books and newspapers in all of Europe (except for the Portuguese) (at 16% and 14%, respectively).

: Apart from the horrific masacre on the English language that most of the posters in this section are reknowned for (grammar and spelling), the real horror is to be found in the complete misinterpretation of the complex, yet very tumultuous history that our race has endured.

: The real culprits in our history have ALWAYS been the demogogues (such as the anti-Orthodox posters here) who, for their own power, attack the establishment - alleging that it is so corrupt - without ever offering a substantive alternative to real issues; in other words, knowing that they can never get into power, they boost their own popularity by inciting hatred of others who do have power by targetting their incredible (and incredulous) simplifications and falsehoods on those who most readily respond to these 'facts'. Yes, the target audience has always the same throughout our history: those who know the least, thinking they know the most.

: As one of our ancestors once said:

: "The only thing worse than someone who is completely ignorant is someone who is half ignorant:" (Put into simpler terms, "Beware of the half-truth for you do not know which half you have been told").

: By the way, there is no such thing as a "Greek Church" (rather, it is the Orthodox Church; please read Christ's admonition that "There is neither Greek nor Jew, woman or man, free person or slave, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:26-29); and you call yourselves Orthodox ? How shameful !

: May our Lord have mercy on us all and may we pray for some humility.

: With all my sincere wishes for wisdom (for us all),

: Themistokles (an Orthodox Christian of Hellenic ancestry).

I feel as a 5TH generation Brit of Hellenic origion that the statements made pertaining to Greek Orthodox history are correct BUT let me pose several questions to you.
1)If the Greeks had sided with the Pope earlier do you honestly believe for one miniscule second that they would have been saved from Ottoman occupation??
2)The pope could hardly protect his own people and was lucky not to fall to the ottomans himself.Do you think the west would have engaged in what would have been a bloodthirsty war which would have left them TOTALLY DEPLETED and in grave danger of losing thus leaving the rest of Europe EXPOSED???
3)Do you honestly feel that the Catholic church would have acted differently if in a similiar position?If your answer was yes then have a look at the more recent history of WWII and you will be schocked.
Having said that i must state that as a family which arrived here in 1830 we personaly do NOT have fond memories of the church or its hierachy which was and STILL IS TO THIS DAY pursuing its own agenda which revolves around power and money BUT then again which church isnt??
I personally feel that we must shed all this NON GREEK Orthodoxy and REVISIT the TRUE SPIRIT of HeLLAS and its ANCINT RELIGION,IDEALS AND VALUES for the Germans did make sense in stating that the RACIST,THEOCRATIC and IGNORANT ATTITUDES DISPLAYED ARE CERTAINLY NOT GREEK.

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