Re: Dorians

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Posted by kosta on May 25, 2002 at 01:30:02:

In Reply to: Re: Dorians posted by patriwths on May 24, 2002 at 14:18:00:

: The germanic types (goths, franks, germans, northern russians, danes, angles, saxons, and so on) came into europe from the iron age on, partly superceding celtic europe.

I think they were always in Europe but that they just kept to themselves way up North until the Romans started making contact with them.

: (Slavs are a very recent arrival. Everyone who knows their history books knows that they only
: came to europe in the seventh century AD) (bulgarians, who are of a turkic origin, came from central asia and migrated westward in the late 5th and early 6th century. They came into the balkans in the end of the 6th century)

The Slavs are native to Europe too, but they just lived in isolated areas in the Northeast and never did anything noteworthy, so nobody noticed them until late in history. They are basically the last white people to become "civilized."

The Bulgars are definitely migrants, but I think they came from somewhere closer than is imagined.
Mongoloid types originate nearer to Europe than is commonly believed. There is even a transitional race called the Ladogan, which is mongoloid in some ways but still Caucasian--its mongoloid features derive from evolution rather than mixture. The Bulgarians (and most of the more-eastern Europeans) have a lot Ladogan heritage, along with a little "real" Mongoloid and Turkic admixture. This is especially true of Hungarians.

: True that the pelasgian features are not so common now. I think in large part their bone structure was dominated out by the physiology of the Ellhnes and later the dorians, though the fact that most greeks have the olive toned skin is a pelasgian feature.

One has to keep in mind, though, that the Mediterranean strain found in Greece is taller and more robust than in neighboring countries; it's a version of the Atlanto-Mediterranean race talked about by Coon. You'd know the type if you saw it; it's the same one that's depicted on frescoes and vases: tall, dark haired, and with a straight nose. It's still very common among Greeks; just look at Pete Sampras. Oh, and dark skin doesn't necessarily mean Med. ancestry. Alpines (the most common race in Greece) in unmixed form are really a dark, dingy-yellow color. There are also very dark-skinned aboriginal types in Southern Europe who are as yet unclassified; these very well may be prehistoric in origin.

: I still dont know which way the Ellhnes came to the central part of the aegean world. Did they come from Pindos and Thessalia, or did they come from Ionia and asia minor?

All I know is, the Alpines have gradually spread all over Europe and the Middle East, and the Ellhnes were one phase of this, so now it's hard to tell where they came from. I think Alpines in general came from somewhere above the Black Sea and were responsible for the spread of Indo-European languages, but that's another thread.

: Another thing that is sickening is how the turks think they somehow have some heritage from asia minor just because they live there now, like that is somehow _their_ past. nice try, guys. their past is full of barbarism, and it is out in the steppe in central asia. That's their home.

I'm afraid they are parially right; most of them, along with the Armenians, are of the Armenoid race. This type is indigenous to Anatolia. Even some Greeks (and a LOT of Cypriots) are Armenoids.

: Though, it is sad but true that many turks have greek-like features: who knows how many greek women were wed to turkish men, how many greeks converted to islam to join the enemy or escape the emperor's taxes, how many more were forced into conevrsion by the ottomans, how many turned their backs on their greek
: roots and mixed with the turks? I know some turks who look very greek, from the southern coasts of asia minor. What a tragedy that our very own blood has been hijacked by the enemy and is used against us! (though most of the sotry of the ottoman empire was the story of greeks. the janisaries, the bureacracy, the 'rumaika' that we all still

A lot of this stuff is overrated. Many Turks look like Greeks simply because of the racial cline. A particular type of people isn't confined to modern-day boundaries. It's just like the animal kingdom: a type of animal will be common in one area and less common (but noticable) very far from the stereotypical habitat.

: suffice to say, the greek race is alive today and just about unchanged from the ancient times, and hasnt changed really since the late bronze age, and even that was a minor change, the dorians, and the real change hasnt been since the early bronze age.

The only significant input from other races is that of early Albanians, who's un-assimilated descendants are now called Arvanites.

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