Posted by Elizabeth on July 16, 2001 at 03:37:56:
In Reply to: Re: Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs posted by Come on now... on July 15, 2001 at 20:39:16:
>That still doesn't mean you may not have had >bad experience.
I haven't really had any bad experiences here. I only comment on my observations. As I said in my previous post..my husband, a man born and raised in Athens, agrees with me.
: You have a lot of spunk, and that makes for interesting & controversial conversation.
..glad to be of service
: As far as the Human Rights violations Turkey commits...perhaps they don't kill for petty theft but sorry to tell you, the torture, abuse and rape committed by "persons of authority" tops the world watch of violations.
I'm not defending Turkey's very real and serious problems. I'm only trying to point out that the "black and white" way of thinking: Greece is all good, civilized - Turkey is all bad, barbaric...isn't of course true (statements like that never are), and those who engage in it do themselves, and their imagined cause, a disservice.
:I think before you compare Greece and their "wicked" violation of "pushing" their national religion,
I certainly don't care for the "Orthdoxy is God's gift" mentality but I don't know if I'd call it totally wicked. It is however, a very non-Western, NOW Islamic, way of looking at things.
I should also mention that it really is, as you say, a "national" religion (nationalism) rather than anything spiritual. Most Greeks I've spoken with may sport the requisite cross around their necks..but they an extremely poor understanding of even rudimentary Christian doctrine. This means their Orthodox fixation is really nothing more than patriotism disguised as religion.
: Your responses seem quite advisarial. NO country is perfect, but your comparisons have no substance or back-up.
Again, I am not defending Turkey. Turkey has numerous problems...but they should be looked at and discussed constructively. It's really time to move beyond this adversarial way of thinking. What good does it do to continue to fan the flames of ethnic and religious hatred?
Regarding Turks: I've known several...so I now that they are not all "barbarians" as so many Greeks claim.
: "an elaborate, rich, and corrupt ecclesiastical system poisoning people's minds with fantasies about Orthodoxy, Hellenism, and the "true" Christianity. Rather than trying to move their flock beyond petty bigotries, they fan the flames of ethnic nationalism"
: What does that mean???? That is your comparison for Human Rights violation???
: Come on now.....
Have you stopped to think about exactly what all their blabbering actually accomplishes? The Orthodox Church seems determined to keep the minds of the average Greek fixated on their imagined ethnic and religious superiority. This is a much more subtle way of violating human rights. (Orthodox "believers" who listen to speech after speech about Jewish, Catholic, and Muslim "threats" won't be the most tolerant of people) I believe that this is of course...just their method of remaining relevant :)..but it's certainly not helping anyone. It's actually hobbling Greece by keeping her overly focused on an issue that's totally useless in the 21st century. The countries who will be the real players in this coming century will be those who think more globally.
Post a Followup