Posted by kosta on May 26, 2002 at 02:50:18:
In Reply to: Re: what about the influence of the franks/venetians on the islands? posted by Gertrude on May 26, 2002 at 00:04:03:
: Actually for a population of 500,000 back then this was quite important! Also in Nicosia the most common element there is Alpine, *not* Mediterannean.
The higher incidence of Alpines could just as well be the result Greek colonization there. Anyway, I never said there was no possibility of you having Frankish ancestry; I only mentioned some things because you're argument of "Franks lived in Cypress...I'm of fair complexion...therefore, I'm really of Frankish ancestry" seemed a bit simplistic. I'm Peleponesian, and I can easily make a similar argument, being that my part of the woods has been under various Latin rulers (including Franks) for a *very* long time. Where my parents are from there are French and Venetian castles virtually around every corner. There are cannons, cobblestone streets, ...you name it. Many people in the area even have Latin-sounding names. None of this, however, would ever make me feel comfortable in saying that I'm of "Frankish descent."
: Cyprus was a mixture of Minoan-related (akin to Linear A I believe speaking) people, Phoenicians and Greeks with some oriental elements. No different to the majority of original Aegean islands, before the disbursment of modern Hellens in the modern state.
I don't think Phoenicians and "oriental elements" had much to do with the Aegean ethnos. The Aegean was dominated by Atlanto-Mediterraneans (the probable race of the Minoans) in ancient times; this is shown in the anthropological record. Even today most Aegean Islanders are dolichocephalic (long-headed), straight-nosed, and tall; whereas most other Greeks are brachycephalic (broad-headed) and of stereotypical Alpine build. Interestingly, Crete is today almost entirely Atlanto-Med. in race. I'm not sure if its being the center of Minoan civilization has something to do with it, or that its remoteness to the mainland is the main factor.
Also Asia Minor was a colony of Greece in the past and never a Greek land as such either. How do you justify the 1,000,000 'Greeks' who were settled in the modern Greek state at the beginning of this century? They were Hellenised peoples as well (like most modern Greeks). Also our languge and culture contains more ancient Greek elements than 'Attic' Greece.
Whoah! Asia Minor was colonized at various times by Greeks, but it wasn't a "colony" per se. The West of Asia Minor is really a part of the Balkans and southern Europe. It works both ways: each side of the Aegean has colonized the other throughout history. In fact, the overall net movement is *to* Greece and places like Italy, and not the other way. Many peculiar genetic abnormalities found in Greeks and Italians (and in ancient skeletal remains from Greece and Italy) have been traced back to Asia Minor by geneticists.
And how do I "justify" 1,000,000 'Greeks'? I'm not exactly sure why I need to justify anything. Are you turning this discourse into some sort of pissing contest over who is more "Greek"? I'm sorry if I said something to offend you, but if you actually believe that modern Greeks are merely "Hellenized" johnny-come-latelies, given all the available evidence, you are sorely mistaken.
Oh yeah, "Attic" Greek was forced onto the people by the Greek state. Truly ancient dialects persisted in Greece well into modern times, one of them being Tsakonian. Tsakonian descends from the Doric language of the Spartans and is still spoken (though disappearing fast) today in the Peleponisus.
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